Политкорректная "Цивилизация" - 2
Mar. 3rd, 2010 02:36 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
dargotПриветствую!
Помнится, было дело, писал я про политкорректную "Цивилизацию" - а именно про то, что в "Цивилизации", почему-то, среди немецких лидеров не присутствует один бывший ефрейтор, с челкой и усиками, художник и вегетарианец.
В связи с тем, что грядет новая - пятая - часть "Цивилизации", на соответствующем форуме обсуждается - надо ли вводить в игру Гитлера. Ответы забавляют - это же ужас-ужас! Гитлер монстр и чудовище! Гы. Можно подумать Чингис-хан сажал лидеров окрестных государств на почетное место в юрте и поил их кумысом с ложечки, Александр Македонский действовал исключительно мудрым словом, а Наполеон - добрым делом.
Однако, это только маргарин, самый жир - впереди. Жир этот называется - поляки.
Поясняю для незнакомых с историей вопроса. Практически все время существования четвертой части "Цивилизации", когда на каком-то из популярных тематических форумов, поднималась тема: "Какую бы цивилизацию вы хотели видеть в новом дополненнии?", паны, звеня саблями, сбегались туда как в шинку и принимались орать: "Jeszcze Polska nie zginęła!" словно на сейме. Они так всех задрали, что на каком-то форуме (ссылкой, к несчастью, сейчас не поделюсь), для польских требований была создана отдельная тема, куда модераторы аккуратно переносили весь этот гвалт из прочих веток. Паны орали еще громче и обвиняли модераторов в том, что их отправили в гетто - но шум в гетто модераторов не волновал.
На подходе новая часть игры - и гонор бурлит и разливается с невиданной ранее силой:
New civilization
Dear Creators of the Game, Dear Forum Members.
Civilization IV is the best game I've ever played, ...
I've missed very much my country in Civ4, and I beg you to add it in civ5.
...
It's really worthy of adding, because:
- Poland is dynamically growing gaming market....
- Poland has big civ community ...
- Polish civilization is in almost every mod that extends gameplay...
- It was always major nation in Central Europe and the game lacks Central European civ....
- We'd formed empire in XVI and XVII c. merging with Lithuania into Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth which was one of the few most important countries in Europe (and the biggest and most powerful empire in Central and East Europe). Powerful winged hussar unit led by king Sobieski stopped Turkish invasion to Europe, saving Vienna from becoming a part of Muslim country.
- Many years of wars with our neighbours made our country weak in XVIII c. and we were divided into growing empires of Prussia Austria and Russia. More than hundred years didn't erase Poland - we did a couple of uprisings, cared for our culture and language and succesfully we became independent country again in 1918, but it wasn't a peaceful time - the Bolsheviks were advancing.
- It was Poland who stopped Bolsheviks in 1920 in great victory which saved Europe from communism after WWI.
- Poland was fifth major allies power in WWII, fighting alone in 1939 with Nazi Germany and treacherous Soviet Union. After collapse we fought on all European fronts - Norway (Narvik), France (First defence of France, later Falaise where Polish Armoured Forces were cork in the bottle which captured German divisions, Battle of Britain (famous air divisions), North Africa (Tobruk), Italy (capturing Monte Cassino - this victory opened doors to Rome), Netherlands, East Front hand to hand with Soviet Union (Lenino, Bagram, Berlin, etc....). It was Warsaw which saw two uprisings during World War II. First made by Jews to protect against Nazi Germany opression, and year later by Polish Resistance which wanted to throw away German from Warsaw and to show Stalin that we want free and independent country. But world forget once again and we became Stalin's trophy in Potsdam.
- After 50 years we've started the chain reaction - first making Free Labour Union "Solidarność", and later first free elections to parliament in Central and East Europe and collapse of communist government , which of course later bringed freedom in Hungary, Germany (and collapse of wall), Czech Republic, Romania, collapse of Soviet Union. And after these 20 years we're again strong country with strong economy, and a active member of NATO and EU.
Please, creators of this game, remember about our country. ...
Дальнейшие посты прекрасны. Нет, не то слово - они восхитительны! В ход идет все. На щит поднимаются Болеслав Хоробрый и Мария Склодовская-Кюри, крылатые гусары и Иоанн-Павел II, Варшавское восстание (причем оба, "что символизирует"(c)) и Николай Коперник.
"I wouldn't say Poland had bigger impact on world history than Sumer or Netherlands, but Assyria..."
"If there was no Battle of Warsaw of 1920 you would greet the commies in Paris."
"...if Poland was so unimportant why it took two - not just one - great powers (nazi Germany and USSR signing the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact) to take it out"
"...in the year 1683 Poland stoped the expenision of Ottoman empire in europe. That was certainly a turning point in european history!"
"Can You imagine the European history after a lost war with Bolsheviks in 1920? That was another truning point in european and world history. Comunism would spread on whole of Europe..."
"There is at least one 'wonderful' place in Poland as well. The former salt mine "Wieliczka"."
"Another 'wonderful' (but lost) construction, was the Amber Room"
"...we put false heir to the throne in Russia, captured Moscow and ruled it for couple of years (it finished with uprising - we we're bad boys ). Something that was only done before by Mongols, and weren't done again by Napoleon or Hitler."
"...one of the greatest countries centuries ago, and one of the strongest if we look 50 years to the future"
"What about military genius of Kosciuszko - who established West Point ?"
"Regardless, how many do You think Zulu is playing Civilization ?"
"The Jagiellonian University (Polish: Uniwersytet Jagielloński, often shortened to UJ; historical names: Latin: Studium Generale, Kraków Academy, The Main Crown School, Main School of Kraków, Kraków University) was established in 1364 by Casimir III the Great in Kraków. It is the oldest institution of higher education in Poland, the second oldest university in Eastern Europe and one of the oldest universities in Europe.
How many universitites Mali had at a time ? Or United States or Canada ?"
"Son of Helena Modrzejewska was an engineer who developed first and longest at a time suspension Bridge - between Brooklyn and Staten Island, later named Verazzano Bridge"
"Most historians say it was a safe haven for free thought and tolerance as far as I remember."
"first Polish university was found in 1364 in Cracow. That's exactly 302 years before Harvard and 276 years after Bolonia."
"And if you will ever travel to the countries to the east of Poland you will see that still there remain thousands buildings to witness Polish influence on the region (castles, churches, palaces, monasteries, etc.). It were not the Russians who built it, it were the Russians (and Soviets) who tried to destroy it!"
"As far as I see Poland still is the victim of nazi and soviet propaganda. History proved it dozens of times the stronger Poland, the weaker Russians and Germans. So they still want it to prevail..."
"Not many knows that the United States Declaration of Independence was not the first of its kind. Sadly but even Poles don’t know that we had similar document, that was the masterpiece of law, which one? I’m speaking about act written by Paweł Włodkowic z Brudzenia"
"Many forgot that the first steps on the way called Democracy was not done by England or France..."
"Copernicus was free to talk and free to state his opinions contrary to Galileo who burned in flames for heresy."
"Polish people had much more influence on the world than You would expect."
"A power which ceased to exist and was born again deserves to be in the game for this only reason."
"...Polish culture is strictly attached to the topos of freedom, Rzeczpospolita Obojga Narodow was a country of many religions and many ethnicities but the thing that bonded people was their culture."
"I see very strong differences between Polish and Russian people"
"...Poland has been used and abused by many nations over the years so i think its a great civilisation to use because it could become very influentional in the scenarios that are based in Europe"
"...I think I know history quite well and believe me that 1/4 of leaders in civ aren't very familliar to me - Zara Yaqub, Mansa Musa, Surayavaman, Asoka, Boudica, Brennus, Cyrus, Willem van Oranje, Wang Kon, Mehmed II, Suleiman, Ragnar, Pacal II"
"In September 1939 German XIX Armeekorps (42 000 soldiers supported by havy artylery, 350 tanks and planes) was approaching to Warsaw. 720 Polish soldiers commanded by captain Władysław Raginis kept them for 3 days! That's like Greek Battle of Thermopylae!"
"...What about Battle of Britain?"
"...I'm curious if you learned in Spanish school something about our queen Bona to which King Philip II of Spain was indebted for 430000 ducates. He never repaid it and is considered responsible for her death."
"The greatest of our leaders in my opinion is Józef Piłsudzki. I've no idea why he's so unknown being one of the most influential people on European political scene of his time. Even Hitler admired him, wanted on his side, soviets were scared, after some serious beating from Polish army. Piłsudzki's victory in a war with Soviets saved the Europe."
"Zulu? Russia? American? You are joking."
"Definitely Polish civilization is above Zulu, Aztec, Mali, Ethiopia, Native American and Mongol."
"Sorry but Poland made unique style in fashion and culture. For example popular Kontusz or żupan"
"...it was Spain wich forced Jews to left country in 1492. And at that time Jews could pray and live in Poland without discrimination. We didn't slate different civilizations or believers in other religions. we had always been very kind to guests."
"Poland is not dead!"
С уважением, Dargot.
Помнится, было дело, писал я про политкорректную "Цивилизацию" - а именно про то, что в "Цивилизации", почему-то, среди немецких лидеров не присутствует один бывший ефрейтор, с челкой и усиками, художник и вегетарианец.
В связи с тем, что грядет новая - пятая - часть "Цивилизации", на соответствующем форуме обсуждается - надо ли вводить в игру Гитлера. Ответы забавляют - это же ужас-ужас! Гитлер монстр и чудовище! Гы. Можно подумать Чингис-хан сажал лидеров окрестных государств на почетное место в юрте и поил их кумысом с ложечки, Александр Македонский действовал исключительно мудрым словом, а Наполеон - добрым делом.
Однако, это только маргарин, самый жир - впереди. Жир этот называется - поляки.
Поясняю для незнакомых с историей вопроса. Практически все время существования четвертой части "Цивилизации", когда на каком-то из популярных тематических форумов, поднималась тема: "Какую бы цивилизацию вы хотели видеть в новом дополненнии?", паны, звеня саблями, сбегались туда как в шинку и принимались орать: "Jeszcze Polska nie zginęła!" словно на сейме. Они так всех задрали, что на каком-то форуме (ссылкой, к несчастью, сейчас не поделюсь), для польских требований была создана отдельная тема, куда модераторы аккуратно переносили весь этот гвалт из прочих веток. Паны орали еще громче и обвиняли модераторов в том, что их отправили в гетто - но шум в гетто модераторов не волновал.
На подходе новая часть игры - и гонор бурлит и разливается с невиданной ранее силой:
New civilization
Dear Creators of the Game, Dear Forum Members.
Civilization IV is the best game I've ever played, ...
I've missed very much my country in Civ4, and I beg you to add it in civ5.
...
It's really worthy of adding, because:
- Poland is dynamically growing gaming market....
- Poland has big civ community ...
- Polish civilization is in almost every mod that extends gameplay...
- It was always major nation in Central Europe and the game lacks Central European civ....
- We'd formed empire in XVI and XVII c. merging with Lithuania into Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth which was one of the few most important countries in Europe (and the biggest and most powerful empire in Central and East Europe). Powerful winged hussar unit led by king Sobieski stopped Turkish invasion to Europe, saving Vienna from becoming a part of Muslim country.
- Many years of wars with our neighbours made our country weak in XVIII c. and we were divided into growing empires of Prussia Austria and Russia. More than hundred years didn't erase Poland - we did a couple of uprisings, cared for our culture and language and succesfully we became independent country again in 1918, but it wasn't a peaceful time - the Bolsheviks were advancing.
- It was Poland who stopped Bolsheviks in 1920 in great victory which saved Europe from communism after WWI.
- Poland was fifth major allies power in WWII, fighting alone in 1939 with Nazi Germany and treacherous Soviet Union. After collapse we fought on all European fronts - Norway (Narvik), France (First defence of France, later Falaise where Polish Armoured Forces were cork in the bottle which captured German divisions, Battle of Britain (famous air divisions), North Africa (Tobruk), Italy (capturing Monte Cassino - this victory opened doors to Rome), Netherlands, East Front hand to hand with Soviet Union (Lenino, Bagram, Berlin, etc....). It was Warsaw which saw two uprisings during World War II. First made by Jews to protect against Nazi Germany opression, and year later by Polish Resistance which wanted to throw away German from Warsaw and to show Stalin that we want free and independent country. But world forget once again and we became Stalin's trophy in Potsdam.
- After 50 years we've started the chain reaction - first making Free Labour Union "Solidarność", and later first free elections to parliament in Central and East Europe and collapse of communist government , which of course later bringed freedom in Hungary, Germany (and collapse of wall), Czech Republic, Romania, collapse of Soviet Union. And after these 20 years we're again strong country with strong economy, and a active member of NATO and EU.
Please, creators of this game, remember about our country. ...
Дальнейшие посты прекрасны. Нет, не то слово - они восхитительны! В ход идет все. На щит поднимаются Болеслав Хоробрый и Мария Склодовская-Кюри, крылатые гусары и Иоанн-Павел II, Варшавское восстание (причем оба, "что символизирует"(c)) и Николай Коперник.
"I wouldn't say Poland had bigger impact on world history than Sumer or Netherlands, but Assyria..."
"If there was no Battle of Warsaw of 1920 you would greet the commies in Paris."
"...if Poland was so unimportant why it took two - not just one - great powers (nazi Germany and USSR signing the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact) to take it out"
"...in the year 1683 Poland stoped the expenision of Ottoman empire in europe. That was certainly a turning point in european history!"
"Can You imagine the European history after a lost war with Bolsheviks in 1920? That was another truning point in european and world history. Comunism would spread on whole of Europe..."
"There is at least one 'wonderful' place in Poland as well. The former salt mine "Wieliczka"."
"Another 'wonderful' (but lost) construction, was the Amber Room"
"...we put false heir to the throne in Russia, captured Moscow and ruled it for couple of years (it finished with uprising - we we're bad boys ). Something that was only done before by Mongols, and weren't done again by Napoleon or Hitler."
"...one of the greatest countries centuries ago, and one of the strongest if we look 50 years to the future"
"What about military genius of Kosciuszko - who established West Point ?"
"Regardless, how many do You think Zulu is playing Civilization ?"
"The Jagiellonian University (Polish: Uniwersytet Jagielloński, often shortened to UJ; historical names: Latin: Studium Generale, Kraków Academy, The Main Crown School, Main School of Kraków, Kraków University) was established in 1364 by Casimir III the Great in Kraków. It is the oldest institution of higher education in Poland, the second oldest university in Eastern Europe and one of the oldest universities in Europe.
How many universitites Mali had at a time ? Or United States or Canada ?"
"Son of Helena Modrzejewska was an engineer who developed first and longest at a time suspension Bridge - between Brooklyn and Staten Island, later named Verazzano Bridge"
"Most historians say it was a safe haven for free thought and tolerance as far as I remember."
"first Polish university was found in 1364 in Cracow. That's exactly 302 years before Harvard and 276 years after Bolonia."
"And if you will ever travel to the countries to the east of Poland you will see that still there remain thousands buildings to witness Polish influence on the region (castles, churches, palaces, monasteries, etc.). It were not the Russians who built it, it were the Russians (and Soviets) who tried to destroy it!"
"As far as I see Poland still is the victim of nazi and soviet propaganda. History proved it dozens of times the stronger Poland, the weaker Russians and Germans. So they still want it to prevail..."
"Not many knows that the United States Declaration of Independence was not the first of its kind. Sadly but even Poles don’t know that we had similar document, that was the masterpiece of law, which one? I’m speaking about act written by Paweł Włodkowic z Brudzenia"
"Many forgot that the first steps on the way called Democracy was not done by England or France..."
"Copernicus was free to talk and free to state his opinions contrary to Galileo who burned in flames for heresy."
"Polish people had much more influence on the world than You would expect."
"A power which ceased to exist and was born again deserves to be in the game for this only reason."
"...Polish culture is strictly attached to the topos of freedom, Rzeczpospolita Obojga Narodow was a country of many religions and many ethnicities but the thing that bonded people was their culture."
"I see very strong differences between Polish and Russian people"
"...Poland has been used and abused by many nations over the years so i think its a great civilisation to use because it could become very influentional in the scenarios that are based in Europe"
"...I think I know history quite well and believe me that 1/4 of leaders in civ aren't very familliar to me - Zara Yaqub, Mansa Musa, Surayavaman, Asoka, Boudica, Brennus, Cyrus, Willem van Oranje, Wang Kon, Mehmed II, Suleiman, Ragnar, Pacal II"
"In September 1939 German XIX Armeekorps (42 000 soldiers supported by havy artylery, 350 tanks and planes) was approaching to Warsaw. 720 Polish soldiers commanded by captain Władysław Raginis kept them for 3 days! That's like Greek Battle of Thermopylae!"
"...What about Battle of Britain?"
"...I'm curious if you learned in Spanish school something about our queen Bona to which King Philip II of Spain was indebted for 430000 ducates. He never repaid it and is considered responsible for her death."
"The greatest of our leaders in my opinion is Józef Piłsudzki. I've no idea why he's so unknown being one of the most influential people on European political scene of his time. Even Hitler admired him, wanted on his side, soviets were scared, after some serious beating from Polish army. Piłsudzki's victory in a war with Soviets saved the Europe."
"Zulu? Russia? American? You are joking."
"Definitely Polish civilization is above Zulu, Aztec, Mali, Ethiopia, Native American and Mongol."
"Sorry but Poland made unique style in fashion and culture. For example popular Kontusz or żupan"
"...it was Spain wich forced Jews to left country in 1492. And at that time Jews could pray and live in Poland without discrimination. We didn't slate different civilizations or believers in other religions. we had always been very kind to guests."
"Poland is not dead!"
С уважением, Dargot.
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Date: 2010-04-01 08:55 pm (UTC)